Forum Forum Home Bandit’s Posts Today’s Posts

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $697 Outlaw]

Cmon then, a round of applause to anybody who can lay to bed or prove the “ 50p on top of your stake for an extra chance to feature “ in a game works ….

I’m calling bullshit …

[Xbobmad WANTED $729 Outlaw]

I’m sure in the maths for the game it’ll work out. Most people aren’t privy to such information though. I’d guess over millions of spins it’s worthwhile but for a few hundred not so much.

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $697 Outlaw]

Xbobmad wrote:

I’m sure in the maths for the game it’ll work out. Most people aren’t privy to such information though. I’d guess over millions of spins it’s worthwhile but for a few hundred not so much.

I think it’s magic unicorns…. When they fart the bonus lands ….prove me wrong …

[ImperialDragon WANTED $68 Outlaw]

I think this is mostly Pragmatic and Nolimit City right?

Some pen-pushers (who have no gambling experience) decided that it’s all a-ok to bet a £500 spin on roulette or Crazy Time, but it’s not a-ok to buy a £50 bonus.

What Pragmatic and Nolimit did was to allow us mortal UK gamblers to play their games at a rate of between 1.2X bet (e.g. Remember Gulag) and 2.0X bet (e.g. Pearl Harbor).  This puts more scatters on the reels for an increased bonus chance.  In theory anyway.

[Seyahkram1977 WANTED $697 Outlaw]

ImperialDragon wrote:

I think this is mostly Pragmatic and Nolimit City right?

Some pen-pushers (who have no gambling experience) decided that it’s all a-ok to bet a £500 spin on roulette or Crazy Time, but it’s not a-ok to buy a £50 bonus.

What Pragmatic and Nolimit did was to allow us mortal UK gamblers to play their games at a rate of between 1.2X bet (e.g. Remember Gulag) and 2.0X bet (e.g. Pearl Harbor).  This puts more scatters on the reels for an increased bonus chance.  In theory anyway.

I’ll be honest, now you mention it, I think it is just those two, I can’t think of any game on another provider that offers the extra chance ….

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

Seyahkram1977 wrote:

Cmon then, a round of applause to anybody who can lay to bed or prove the “ 50p on top of your stake for an extra chance to feature “ in a game works ….

I’m calling bullshit …

I don’t really post here any more, I occasionally visit to see if the Bandit’s put a new video up for nostalgia. But I’ve worked in software for a long time, including some exposure to the betting industry (I don’t say more for identity/privacy) so I do know something about how these work.

What I can tell you is the rules governing the UK market, which are regulated by the Gambling Commission, don’t specify that there’s one particular way game features like this have to work, but there are rules around a slot’s fairness and in particular randomness overall for each spin outcome.

So anyway, one of the most common ways slots work is that we just have a reel set – so if it’s a 5×3 with 20 winlines for example, each of those 5 reels has let’s say 100 symbols on it, in different groups of repetition or not depending on the game design and when you spin, a computer randomly generates a “stop position” for each of the five reels, which then determines what you see on your screen and allows the program to calculate any win. It’s the specific design of these reels – how many symbols and in what order – which determines the RTP and the overall probability of wins of different sizes landing.

If the stop positions result in you getting for example 3 or more scatters on the screen, the bonus is triggered. The bonus might be a sequence of free spins on a different reel set which is more likely to result in wins, or it might a fixed win amount which is determined randomly and then presented to you non-randomly. These are two possibilities, there are others.

Short answer to your question: in most cases, the extra bet will literally just change the reel set to one which has a slightly larger number of bonus symbols on it and each spin randomly stops as usual.

As long the game follows statistically random outcomes in accordance with its design and tested RTP, and as long as the player is not being misled about their odds of winning, though, it’s allowed to work pretty much any way the company behind it wants. The main rule with most slots is in simple terms just that they are demonstrably random. But a lot of people get confused by this because they think it means all parts of the game must be random. Nope. The bit which really matters is that the outcome of your bet (spin) is fundamentally random such that in independent testing, the results for the stated RTP fall within the statistical margin of error only. So how that result is determined, how it’s decided whether you got a line-win or a bonus, whether the play and outcome of a bonus or pick is random or pre-determined, whether a gamble outcome is random or pre-determined, etcetera – all that can technically vary. The rules aren’t particularly prescriptive on those details.

So why would most games just use stop positions and stick some extra scatters on the reels for an enhanced bet? Because it’s the easiest thing to do to hit the desired long term RTP outcome and the simplest thing to build, that’s all.

[farahtrousers WANTED $22 Outlaw]

I’d like to back up that and say that is exactly how it works but you already know the reality at the end of the day.

scenario one
Danger High Voltage bonus lands and you get “J” as your turn wild symbol.
: “What a coincidence, the jacks have disappeared.” – this doesn’t always happen.

scenario two
add this to the pile : Centurion and similar games visually show you a bigger bonus symbol.
: but do they land more because they are bigger ?

It doesn’t matter what you are playing, the volatility and so on. What matters is the RTP. When a slot is turned on for the first time, it is placed at X position on the RTP scale. Let’s say FOBT £500 jackpot. Let’s say the max it can owe is £500. The Max it can be owed is £500 + RTP difference ie profit. We do this to keep the argument simple. The position on the RTP scale is held by X. X floats around the scale with consumption and payout of monies. Of course, those limits do not exist, only for this simple argument. If you cannot aside this, this argument will not make sense. BUT : 

If (big if) a slot gives a bonus but is limited to paying £5 because £495 is owed, those jacks will not show up much in DHV. The bonus symbols might not land on Centurion.

RTP is king. Profit is the ruler. If you think something else is in charge, you are deluded, or lying. RTP is governed by law. Stretched over an amount of spins and also expected to meet requirements, in time.

[Xbobmad WANTED $729 Outlaw]

Because an online slot is provably random, it can’t ever “owe” a win. Each spin is independent and provably random from the next.

I would expect it’s a reel swap as argyl has said. Out of interest, does this tank the base RTP to make this happen 🤔

[Author]

Posts