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[notrege WANTED $39 Outlaw]

Working as a developer myself ( web based not games ) I can understand a little about how things would need to have been developed but it’s hard to find anyone who is named as working on any of these games or for any of the big companies

ones that no longer work for the company that might be locked into a NDA

i think if anyone could get an interview with an ex employee rather than a PR office I’d be more inclined to believe it

[DEVIL4POSTER WANTED $55 Outlaw]

I’ve had 0x bonuses on blueprints a few times more so in the recent years. also I had bonus on a blueprint reloaded it after it crashed and thought to myself, ‘here we go again’ have to go through it all over again, but this time I picked a different bubble on wish upon a JP to what I had originally picked before in the game when it crashed. I expected it to be the same as b4 as this is what it usually does, the total win paid the same as the crashed game but the feature was different. Only saw this happen once and it was years ago but still interesting. At the end of the day, “it gets dark” lol no but really someone has to programme these games and their odds and although the game in a sense is random there has to be some element of risk limitation employed by the casino’s in what is possible/likely etc. it may be possible that there could be oversights in a games development that means it can be manipulated in the short term, but I’m sure that is quickly remedied and in the long run it wouldn’t matter, not meaning to throw up an old overused expression but… “The house always wins” and on slots they win alot quicker.

What i find interesting is if you take reel king for example, say the slot RPT was 97% for example sake, and your hitting well below that, say 69% does that mean evenually you’ll level up by at least 28% at some random point in time. which opens up another question is the RPT based on a multitude of factors from players deposits, RPT of invidivual games played, total player pool and other structural framework limitations put in place by the casino’s like withdrawl limits for example.

 

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

DEVIL4POSTER wrote:

I’ve had 0x bonuses on blueprints a few times more so in the recent years. also I had bonus on a blueprint reloaded it after it crashed and thought to myself, ‘here we go again’ have to go through it all over again, but this time I picked a different bubble on wish upon a JP to what I had originally picked before in the game when it crashed. I expected it to be the same as b4 as this is what it usually does, the total win paid the same as the crashed game but the feature was different. Only saw this happen once and it was years ago but still interesting. At the end of the day, “it gets dark” lol no but really someone has to programme these games and their odds and although the game in a sense is random there has to be some element of risk limitation employed by the casino’s in what is possible/likely etc. it may be possible that there could be oversights in a games development that means it can be manipulated in the short term, but I’m sure that is quickly remedied and in the long run it wouldn’t matter, not meaning to throw up an old overused expression but… “The house always wins” and on slots they win alot quicker.

What i find interesting is if you take reel king for example, say the slot RPT was 97% for example sake, and your hitting well below that, say 69% does that mean evenually you’ll level up by at least 28% at some random point in time. which opens up another question is the RPT based on a multitude of factors from players deposits, RPT of invidivual games played, total player pool and other structural framework limitations put in place by the casino’s like withdrawl limits for example.

 

Just in response to your question around RTP – theoretically, yes, over many, many, many spins, you would be expected to recover that RTP closer to the advertised (e.g. 97%). These RTPs are based on a very large number of spins. In a (relatively) small sample, you can expect your RTP to be quite volatile, whether absurdly low or absurdly high.

That being said, recovering to 97% over a large number of spins (let’s say, from 69%) would still result in a substantial loss. Your RTP may have recovered, but you have still lost 3% of your total stakes, which over a large number of spins would be a significant sum of money.

[Wormweed WANTED $42 Outlaw]

NeverTilt wrote:

I’ve heard some industry people say that most of these picking things are pre-determined for reasons to do with restoring the game round in case the player disconnects. In the end it doesn’t make any difference whether the picking round is done by the rng before you actually see the bonus round or if you have “real picks”. At least knowing that you don’t have to agonize for picking the wrong thing.

BTG have said that in their games the bonuses are done by doing a new completely random spin with bonus reels for every spin so in that regard they are completely random even if the game knows what the bonus round is going to pay when it begins it’s just because it’s already simulated the 10 spins or whatever the bonus is.

Jamming jars the new popular mega high variance game is apparently not doing random spins with certain reels but it’s more like a scratchcard where you have a chance to get one of the probably millions of different spins it can give. I honestly don’t have a problem with games like these either since it’s still running at the advertised RTP and it can clearly churn out absolutely bonkers wins as I’m sure many have seen.

Many Blueprint games especially the older ones have many features implemented in the same way and in those it can indeed feel a bit too scratchcardy sometimes. Something that I don’t think everyone knows is that in the newer megaways games Blueprint have that include the random symbol function it’s not really a random symbol being chosen by some math and then appearing. It’s actually just a simple extra tease where sometimes when you land several stacks of a single symbol it will do the animation of random symbol feature. That is why when you have tons of tnt barrels in diamond mine it’s never going to be diamonds because there isn’t that many diamonds anywhere on the reels of the game. Same applies to the newer games buffalo rising etc.

Only things I would actually have a problem with is pie gambles that appear as 50/50 not being those odds or the btg millionaire spins gamble percentages shown not being real but I haven’t seen anything pointing to those happening on any popular providers.

BTG has said that the best strategy on Millionaire is to go for the highest value shown, because the values shown are the real chances of the answer being correct. Dan from Pragmatic (he used to work at videoslots before) has also said that the values have to be real, for it to be legal. I don’t know any other slots that give a % value, extra chilli has the pie wheel, but it doesnt actually show any numbers, so extra chilli could be different behind the scenes. Blueprint slots also have the pie wheel, but no % chance shown.

If the % value is shown it has to be real to get certified, otherwise it would never get a license.

[Ne NeverTilt WANTED $7 Outlaw]

notrege wrote:

Working as a developer myself ( web based not games ) I can understand a little about how things would need to have been developed but it’s hard to find anyone who is named as working on any of these games or for any of the big companies

ones that no longer work for the company that might be locked into a NDA

i think if anyone could get an interview with an ex employee rather than a PR office I’d be more inclined to believe it

There’s a popular forum with a thread where an ex ITG developer will answer any technical questions about slots and their development that he can. You can PM me for a link if you wish. They also have a netent thread where you can give a netent employee your questions.

[notrege WANTED $39 Outlaw]

You can PM me for a link if you wish

is PM an option? i can’t see it when i click on your profile but would very much be interested in this

 

thanks

[notrege WANTED $39 Outlaw]

Bump – still trying to get that link !

[Ne NeverTilt WANTED $7 Outlaw]

notrege wrote:

Bump – still trying to get that link !

Sorry mate didn’t realise there’s no PM here. I don’t want to post links to other casino related sites but you’ll find what you’re looking for by googling the terms meister and casino together. Check out the forum and the slots discussion section. At the top you’ll see what I was talking about.

[Quazzi WANTED $138 Outlaw]

Wormweed wrote:

NeverTilt wrote:

I’ve heard some industry people say that most of these picking things are pre-determined for reasons to do with restoring the game round in case the player disconnects. In the end it doesn’t make any difference whether the picking round is done by the rng before you actually see the bonus round or if you have “real picks”. At least knowing that you don’t have to agonize for picking the wrong thing.

BTG have said that in their games the bonuses are done by doing a new completely random spin with bonus reels for every spin so in that regard they are completely random even if the game knows what the bonus round is going to pay when it begins it’s just because it’s already simulated the 10 spins or whatever the bonus is.

Jamming jars the new popular mega high variance game is apparently not doing random spins with certain reels but it’s more like a scratchcard where you have a chance to get one of the probably millions of different spins it can give. I honestly don’t have a problem with games like these either since it’s still running at the advertised RTP and it can clearly churn out absolutely bonkers wins as I’m sure many have seen.

Many Blueprint games especially the older ones have many features implemented in the same way and in those it can indeed feel a bit too scratchcardy sometimes. Something that I don’t think everyone knows is that in the newer megaways games Blueprint have that include the random symbol function it’s not really a random symbol being chosen by some math and then appearing. It’s actually just a simple extra tease where sometimes when you land several stacks of a single symbol it will do the animation of random symbol feature. That is why when you have tons of tnt barrels in diamond mine it’s never going to be diamonds because there isn’t that many diamonds anywhere on the reels of the game. Same applies to the newer games buffalo rising etc.

Only things I would actually have a problem with is pie gambles that appear as 50/50 not being those odds or the btg millionaire spins gamble percentages shown not being real but I haven’t seen anything pointing to those happening on any popular providers.

BTG has said that the best strategy on Millionaire is to go for the highest value shown, because the values shown are the real chances of the answer being correct. Dan from Pragmatic (he used to work at videoslots before) has also said that the values have to be real, for it to be legal. I don’t know any other slots that give a % value, extra chilli has the pie wheel, but it doesnt actually show any numbers, so extra chilli could be different behind the scenes. Blueprint slots also have the pie wheel, but no % chance shown.

If the % value is shown it has to be real to get certified, otherwise it would never get a license.

There are clips of the ask the audience not adding upto 100%, whats that all about then?

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

@Quazzi – yeah I’ve seen this too. My best guess is it’s a rounding issue. I come across plenty of those in my day job! The actual numbers (not the visually rounded numbers) behind the scenes should add up to 100%.

[av aviad WANTED $7 Outlaw]

Could you please post a link to a video showing the total doesn’t add to 100% ? Thanks

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

aviad wrote:

Could you please post a link to a video showing the total doesn’t add to 100% ? Thanks

Adds up to 101% there.

[av aviad WANTED $7 Outlaw]

notrege wrote:

WARNING POSSIBLE FUN SPOILER ALERTS 

Apologies if this has already been covered, I don’t have time to go through all topics and check, Firstly I’ve been watching the Bandit videos for a while and also various online streamers through casino grounds or twitch.

I’m going to cover 2 topics here:

* Spin modifiers – I’m going to use the Goonies as an example as its current, an example of a spin modifier here is when the skull flashes green (or possibly red if it isn’t a troll) and can award something like that truffle shuffle or shit sloth spin

* Hidden bonus percentages – With games such as Top cat and jungle jackpots you get shown a pie gamble for the higher bonus and show a percentage of how likely you are to hit it (if that can be trusted), with things like Ted/Goonies you get given a “spin” wheel (what your landing on first is already determined btw).

Spin Modifiers are not a choice

One massive thing that seems to nag at me more then anything is when people agonise over which option to choose when displayed with a hidden spin mod and the streamers like to let people choose a number to reveal what they’ve won. The option has already been selected and here’s proof (I actually deposited for the purpose of this post):

Using google chrome browser and pressing f12 brings up the dev tools, if you browse to the network tab you’ll see a window similar to the ones below (you might have to select “response” to see it in plain text) but heres the examples of pre determined mods:

Tease (i look at this when i don’t want to be Disappointed by the king kong bomb mostly):

Mod wins:

colossal symbols:

lucky coin:

sloth (5 of a kind … must be why its shit)

I saw all of these windows before i selected a choice so … as much as you’d like to believe its a choice ..ITS NOT

Bonus Gambles

Here an example of when you get 2 bonus symbols but it misses:

When you actually win the bonus you get more information that is not shown to the player:

above you can see that bonus has landed on level 2 (This is actually level 3 as it starts at 0, so 0,1,2) – this is in the base game once loading the bonus spinner you will see this response below which shows you have a 67.7% change of getting to level 3 (the other percentages are listed as in the top cat game you can skip up more than one level at a time here you cant)

if the bonus spin wins you are given a new set of percentages

here it shows a 68.74 chance of going from level 3 to level 4 … i take it and it wins

as you can see from that screenshot i’m now at level 4 and have a 41.81 chance of reaching the top (it also shows the previous gamble chances) this has increased from 29.88% to 41.81% … I took the chance because i’ve never seen a goonies top feature

IT LOST but when it looses here is what you would see  (a final win of £5.20 from 20p)

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

Once you have chosen to select a bonus that relies on clicking elements, such as spinal tap disks or the organ bonus (as shown) all of the choices are already predetermined so it doesnt matter which one you pick either

now the main discussion here is:

*  is it useful information to know what % you have of gambling your bonus
*  does it take fun away from the game if you already know what your going to win?
* will it affect how you play your games?

 

This is just fascinating man! I dont really understand how to read the dev tools but from what I understand the choices you have on various games are all predetermined so you are not really choosing, and on Goonies is the bonus gamble set to 67% chance of going to the next level bonus?

I would really love if you could do the same investigation into the who wants to be a millionaire slot! to see what is happening behind the scene when you get to choose to gamble your spins, is it predetermined ? what is the chance you have to make it to the next level depending on the option you get ( % of chance your answer is correct) . I would be grateful if you could look into this as well!

[av aviad WANTED $7 Outlaw]

Biohazard wrote:

aviad wrote:

Could you please post a link to a video showing the total doesn’t add to 100% ? Thanks

<iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/wVFBB-QE2sA?start=116&feature=oembed&#8221; width=”640″ height=”360″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

Adds up to 101% there.

wow this is really odd… I wonder how this is possible…

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

aviad wrote:

Biohazard wrote:

aviad wrote:

Could you please post a link to a video showing the total doesn’t add to 100% ? Thanks

<iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/wVFBB-QE2sA?start=116&feature=oembed&#8221; width=”640″ height=”360″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

Adds up to 101% there.

wow this is really odd… I wonder how this is possible…

Most likely just a rounding thing. The percentages shown don’t have any decimal points, so if the percentages are…

A – 64.6%
B – 22.6%
C – 6.7%
D – 6.1%

These add up to 100%. But if we format to one decimal place (which in turn rounds the figure to the nearest whole number) we get a sum of 101%.

I’m interested to know how this works legally in relation to the “true odds” rule though. Surely this would mean that the player has a slight edge, as any rounding would have to benefit the player and not the slot, or they’re breaking the true odds display rule.

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