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[notrege WANTED $41 Outlaw]

WARNING POSSIBLE FUN SPOILER ALERTS 

Apologies if this has already been covered, I don’t have time to go through all topics and check, Firstly I’ve been watching the Bandit videos for a while and also various online streamers through casino grounds or twitch.

I’m going to cover 2 topics here:

* Spin modifiers – I’m going to use the Goonies as an example as its current, an example of a spin modifier here is when the skull flashes green (or possibly red if it isn’t a troll) and can award something like that truffle shuffle or shit sloth spin

* Hidden bonus percentages – With games such as Top cat and jungle jackpots you get shown a pie gamble for the higher bonus and show a percentage of how likely you are to hit it (if that can be trusted), with things like Ted/Goonies you get given a “spin” wheel (what your landing on first is already determined btw).

Spin Modifiers are not a choice

One massive thing that seems to nag at me more then anything is when people agonise over which option to choose when displayed with a hidden spin mod and the streamers like to let people choose a number to reveal what they’ve won. The option has already been selected and here’s proof (I actually deposited for the purpose of this post):

Using google chrome browser and pressing f12 brings up the dev tools, if you browse to the network tab you’ll see a window similar to the ones below (you might have to select “response” to see it in plain text) but heres the examples of pre determined mods:

Tease (i look at this when i don’t want to be Disappointed by the king kong bomb mostly):

Mod wins:

colossal symbols:

lucky coin:

sloth (5 of a kind … must be why its shit)

I saw all of these windows before i selected a choice so … as much as you’d like to believe its a choice ..ITS NOT

Bonus Gambles

Here an example of when you get 2 bonus symbols but it misses:

When you actually win the bonus you get more information that is not shown to the player:

above you can see that bonus has landed on level 2 (This is actually level 3 as it starts at 0, so 0,1,2) – this is in the base game once loading the bonus spinner you will see this response below which shows you have a 67.7% change of getting to level 3 (the other percentages are listed as in the top cat game you can skip up more than one level at a time here you cant)

if the bonus spin wins you are given a new set of percentages

here it shows a 68.74 chance of going from level 3 to level 4 … i take it and it wins

as you can see from that screenshot i’m now at level 4 and have a 41.81 chance of reaching the top (it also shows the previous gamble chances) this has increased from 29.88% to 41.81% … I took the chance because i’ve never seen a goonies top feature

IT LOST but when it looses here is what you would see  (a final win of £5.20 from 20p)

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

Once you have chosen to select a bonus that relies on clicking elements, such as spinal tap disks or the organ bonus (as shown) all of the choices are already predetermined so it doesnt matter which one you pick either

now the main discussion here is:

*  is it useful information to know what % you have of gambling your bonus
*  does it take fun away from the game if you already know what your going to win?
* will it affect how you play your games?

 

[MichaelLFC96 WANTED $114 Outlaw]

I think you’re a fool/wishful thinking if you ever believed otherwise. Of course they’re all pre determined in terms of key picks etc,.

Like the stones, it doesn’t matter what numbers you pick, the wilds etc are always going to be the same.

Yes it’s nice to pick randomly and think you’re being lucky, but it’s all predetermined crap.

[Wormweed WANTED $42 Outlaw]

Blueprint has been known to be predetermined for a while. You can see it in some of the bandits older videos, where his balance updated before he picked anything.

I really don’t think Secret of the stones is predermined, or other similar games. I know Dan from Pragmatic, the boss from BTG and the boss from NetEnt said their games arent predetermined.

But i will eat my words and stop trying to get people to believe BTG, NetEnt and Pragmatic arent predetermined, if you can do the same with games from other providers.

I guess this can be used to determine if you should gamble the bonus for a better one or take it

[Wormweed WANTED $42 Outlaw]

Could you also check this for Buffalo Rising and Genie Jackpots megaways?

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

Wormweed wrote:

Could you also check this for Buffalo Rising and Genie Jackpots megaways?

Genie Jackpots Megaways is predetermined, I’m sure. I won a bonus, but the game crashed before I could make a pick. Refreshed and it had already picked the bonus for me. Plus it is Blueprint, so it would make sense. Have to imagine Buffalo Rising is also.

Certain games must be random, dependent on pick, based on feedback, knowledge, sources etc. that I have, but it does feel providers are moving further and further away from this. Not sure why, as random/pre-determined should give the same outcome over x spins – they’re both random at the source. At least with the random option you feel a bit more in control.

[Mr Mr B WANTED $395 Blocked]

What you have to realise, as the customer, you play the game on the client. Sure, from the client perspective, it looks rigged and I am certainly not defending the gaming industry but decisions are made on the server, not on our devices. Preset vs random (a computer cannot do genuine random anyway) is where they claim or will claim the act of random takes place.

Some years ago Zynga openly talked even bragged about their shuffle algorithm on Zynga Poker classed a double shuffle algorithm. Like one shuffle isn’t random enough. Turns out, if you gave a computer a true random AI choice to make based on zero instruction, it would just hang for eternity.

[Wormweed WANTED $42 Outlaw]

Biohazard wrote:

Wormweed wrote:

Could you also check this for Buffalo Rising and Genie Jackpots megaways?

Genie Jackpots Megaways is predetermined, I’m sure. I won a bonus, but the game crashed before I could make a pick. Refreshed and it had already picked the bonus for me. Plus it is Blueprint, so it would make sense. Have to imagine Buffalo Rising is also.

Certain games must be random, dependent on pick, based on feedback, knowledge, sources etc. that I have, but it does feel providers are moving further and further away from this. Not sure why, as random/pre-determined should give the same outcome over x spins – they’re both random at the source. At least with the random option you feel a bit more in control.

 

Yeah, i think its predetermined as well, certainly feels like it. I still like Blueprint games, even though i know they are predetermined, but it takes away some of the fun.

I really think the other brands with picking games arent predetermined, since most of them give 0x bonuses, while Blueprint slots never give 0x. To me it makes no sense to have a predetermined bonus paying nothing at all.

In the end it should still give the same outcome, over enough spins. So the RTP wouldn’t be any different

[notrege WANTED $41 Outlaw]

I really think the other brands with picking games arent predetermined, since most of them give 0x bonuses, while Blueprint slots never give 0x. To me it makes no sense to have a predetermined bonus paying nothing at all.

I’m pretty sure is is all of blueprints “pick” games, I still feel the free spins features are not predetermined as i’ve had a 0x win on king kong cash’s “empire spins” where i got 1 wild in 10 spins same on the wild antics game tbh

My main reason for looking at how it works is to save time, basically when ted jumps up and adds bonus symbols to the wheel it takes 30 seconds, then another 10 seconds for the reels to stop, and more often than not you get 2 bonus symbols and it doesn’t land so i can open another tab look at something interesting for a minute 😀

Spin mods and “pick” bonus only are predefined – even big money is pre defined actually, even tho thats a spin of a wheel in some games (duckula) its still all calculated before. I’ve not spent any time looking into other providers btw

[TheSchwad WANTED $20 Outlaw]

Alot of sites the balance updates before the animation is finished or choices is clicked. Takes the fun out of a Wild Desire, and i cant help but look when i get a bounus tease and can tell when its gonna drop. Winning room and Redbet are the worst for this, and all blieprints have pre decided. Genie Jackpots uodates bakance every time genie pops out so know when I’m getting a megaways and not a bonus.

[eejit101 WANTED $312 Outlaw]

Every pick game is predetermined.

 

Blueprints just make it look… Less stylish. (They do give a 0x bonus btw. I had 2).

Who said secret of the stones is not predetermined?

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

eejit101 wrote:

Every pick game is predetermined.

 

Blueprints just make it look… Less stylish. (They do give a 0x bonus btw. I had 2).

Who said secret of the stones is not predetermined?

Actually, not all. At least in land-based casinos in the US! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhjZ00rsHQ&t=1080s

[-Dist WANTED $23 Outlaw]

Biohazard wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhjZ00rsHQ&t=1080s

That doesn’t prove anything. Any tool from the industry can say that that’s how they work but the fact is we have no proof. When it comes to online we might be able to get proof like the OP did with Blueprint slots.

My question now then is whether this method can be used to determine if Secret of the Stones for example is pre-determined or not. Because if it’s pre-determined then that immediately destroys the claim that “If all symbols are revealed then it’s not pre-determined”.

[Wormweed WANTED $42 Outlaw]

Id suggest watching these interviews. Question about predermined bonuses is coming up, as well as questions about slots changing etc. A lot of good information in them.

[The Bandit WANTED $5,352 El Bandito]

Somehow i have missed this thread – i blame the rum tbh!

 

I will have a catch up read and watch as it looks an interesting discussion!

[Ne NeverTilt WANTED $7 Outlaw]

I’ve heard some industry people say that most of these picking things are pre-determined for reasons to do with restoring the game round in case the player disconnects. In the end it doesn’t make any difference whether the picking round is done by the rng before you actually see the bonus round or if you have “real picks”. At least knowing that you don’t have to agonize for picking the wrong thing.

BTG have said that in their games the bonuses are done by doing a new completely random spin with bonus reels for every spin so in that regard they are completely random even if the game knows what the bonus round is going to pay when it begins it’s just because it’s already simulated the 10 spins or whatever the bonus is.

Jamming jars the new popular mega high variance game is apparently not doing random spins with certain reels but it’s more like a scratchcard where you have a chance to get one of the probably millions of different spins it can give. I honestly don’t have a problem with games like these either since it’s still running at the advertised RTP and it can clearly churn out absolutely bonkers wins as I’m sure many have seen.

Many Blueprint games especially the older ones have many features implemented in the same way and in those it can indeed feel a bit too scratchcardy sometimes. Something that I don’t think everyone knows is that in the newer megaways games Blueprint have that include the random symbol function it’s not really a random symbol being chosen by some math and then appearing. It’s actually just a simple extra tease where sometimes when you land several stacks of a single symbol it will do the animation of random symbol feature. That is why when you have tons of tnt barrels in diamond mine it’s never going to be diamonds because there isn’t that many diamonds anywhere on the reels of the game. Same applies to the newer games buffalo rising etc.

Only things I would actually have a problem with is pie gambles that appear as 50/50 not being those odds or the btg millionaire spins gamble percentages shown not being real but I haven’t seen anything pointing to those happening on any popular providers.

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