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[ul ulrichburke WANTED $4 Outlaw]

Dear Bandit et al.

When the bonuses come in naturally, it’s usually because the machine WANTS to pay out (for once!) and that’s its way of doing it.  When you BUY them, you’re trying to FORCE the machine to pay out.  The machine won’t count them as a bonus, just as a set of spins (basically!) It won’t suddenly pay out what it would’ve done had it brought the bonus in naturally,. just what it wanted to pay out during that set of 8 (or whatever) spins.  It’s working on its normal random number set (not that computers can DO random, they’re DETERMINISTIC machines by definition but there U go!) not its enhanced bonus number set.  If it would’ve paid out a big win during that 8 spins then it’ll do it via the bonus you’ve bought, if it wouldn’t have paid out during that 8 (or whatever, y’know!) spins, it won’t pay out during that bonus you bought.  You’re trying to force a computer to do what it’s not programmed to do at that point and you can’t do that.

These machines are all dollop payers.  Yes they’ve got a percentage, yes they stick to it – but as they can pay out massively – I remember someone with a name suspiciously like yours who got 100k on Jamming Jars once! – they don’t have to pay out that often.  You won’t force them into paying out just because you bought the bonus – you’ve got to have the internal ‘random’ number set going your way as well.  And if the number set paid out during the bought bonus, I honestly think it would’ve paid out during the normal games.  I really don’t think you can force the issue just by buying the bonus!

Yours respectfully

Chris.

[Pe Pearny WANTED $2 Outlaw]

Thats not how bonus buys work. They are simply equivilant to having spun the same number of spins at the cost of the buy divided by the stake. For example, if the stake is 20p and the bonus buy costs £20 then it will pay out what it would have paid out for those 100 spins,  if it was going to pay nothing for those 100 spins then the bonus pays nothing, if it was going to land a big win or a high paying bonus during those 100 spins then thats what the bonus will pay out. Quite simple really..

[jo jonzipt WANTED $5 Outlaw]

that forcing the machine to pay you argument is just rubbish .. I have seen countless people buying bonus and it works just as if you get the bonus normally, he just happened to be unlucky in his session yesterday ,and it can happen again just as it can happen he get bonus normally and all be a load of crap.

[Eightblack WANTED $446 Outlaw]

I gotta be honest dude I don’t think that’s how it works.. I used play extra chili when we could bonus buy a stupid amount and it’s just the same as when they roll in, sometimes it blows the doors off, sometimes it kicks you in the dick.. that’s gambling lol

[farahtrousers WANTED $22 Outlaw]

Back in the day there was a reason “how to win on slots” was partially a viable thing to claim. Certain features meant you were on a path to a jackpot. If you got that feature and knew how it worked, you could possibly get it. If you were good at skillshots that werent scams, that is.

Now there is nothing. Even “Guy just lost £4,000 in this” means nothing.

Fobt aren’t regulated, not matter what people think.

[UnluckyBloke WANTED $6 Outlaw]

All machines are slightly different but they all work on the concept of determinism. Now as far as I understand the bonuses are a separate calculation with the normal spins. So say you calculate 2.000.000 spins, where 20.000 are bonus spins. (I would think these numbers are a lot bigger, like 10^15 atleast) All the spins are have a combined cost of say 100%. Now the payout have a combined value of the theorize RTP is, like if its 97% then the payout is 97% of the combined cost for all the spins.

So you can have the most boring game in the world be put in 1 pound, get out 97p for all spins. But since nobody would play that, you have 50% of spins that give nothing and can now redistribute those 50% to the rest. This effect is what makes the machines feel differently. How much the different spins and bonuses pay is about this redistribution.

Now this also works on the bonuses. In order for some bonuses to pay more, you have to have some that pay very little. If you have a thing such as a bonus guarantee like Rhinos, then you have to take a bigger share of the normal spins to pay for that.

A machine such as the high volatility Dead or Alive 2 has like 95% very bad bonuses and 4% somewhat good, and 1% very good.

In essence its all redistribution.

Now a very very very important part of this is that each spin is INDIVIDUELLY evaluated. A spin you get is NOT removed from the possibilities. Very unlikely, but you could get the same spin twice in a row. Each spin is as true random as can be between all possible spins, each spin. This also means that your previous spin(s) have absolutely NO impact on your next spin (With exceptions in progressive jackpots, and have the value of the jackpot increased).

This means that a machine might pay out a lot more or a lot less than the RTP, but over time (going to infinity, but a lot faster) the payout for all games combined averages out to the RTP designed.

A bonus buy therefore is just a cherry pick roll in only those 50.000 spins that are bonuses. Some will be utter turd, some will be great. Buy them on a machine such as Dead or Alive 2 and have a high risk of it being turd but a small chance of it being insane. On a machine such as Big Bass Bonanza, and you will often get a decent bonus that doesn’t fluctuate too much.

Since no spin is removed when rolling, buying a bonus also doesn’t “remove” that bonus from the normal game. Unlike scratch offs, hitting a spin does not remove it from possible spins!

TL;DR; Slots are like spinning a 10^15 sided die and bonuses is just 10^5 of those spins, that can be rolled individually when buying a bonus. Same pool as if it hit naturally on the original die.

[Guitar WANTED $5 Outlaw]

The following applies to online gaming and may not be relevant to bookie FOBT’s.

Its random, that’s it, its all based on a series of random numbers.

The bigger the X value of the max win, the more losing (less than you paid for it) bonuses there will be to compensate for the occasional insanely big win.

For a simple example pick a random number between 1 and 10.

Its 10 p per play

If it picks 1, pay back 90p

Any other number you win nothing.

This makes a machine with 90% payout. Very simplified of course but that’s it.

If you want a £1.80 jackpot but keep the play at 10p you have to pick a number between 1 and 20, if its 1 it pays back £1.80 any other number, no win.

So now there are 19 losing numbers instead of 9 in the previous example.
If this was a bonus buy game there would now be even more losing buys.

This ignores the concept of reels but its just a highly simplified demonstration of randomness.
The real machines are handling millions of spins every few seconds, they might be played in real time but I believe the games or spins are pre generated and when you press spin it just pulls the next precalculated spin from the massive queue of spins.

All you are doing is getting lucky that the spin you ‘chose’ based on the exact micro fraction of a second that you hit spin, was a good hit, or more likely getting unlucky.

They are ‘rigged’ in the sense that overall they pay out less (~96%) than is put in overall.

But they are not compensated like pub fruits are / used to be.

They are not in a good or bad mood, you literally get lucky or unlucky.

My suggestion to Bandit if he reads this is to play on free play or a low stake and do a boat load of bonus buys on a single game to see how usually bonus buys normally play on that machine. Or just keep doing whatever you want to do, play how you want 🙂

But in general the lower the X of the max win, the better the bonuses will play more often.
Low X games like Hot Cross Bunnies Loadsa Bunny, or Time is Money (250x) will pay jackpots fairly regularly.
High X Games like San Quentin, Mental (150,000x) will hardly ever pay a jackpot and there’ll be a lot mor elosing spins (and bonuses) to compensate.
In a similar fashion megaways games tend to have more losing bonuses than their non megaways counterparts (but larger wins).

Edit to add: UnluckyBloke’s post wasn’t there when I originally replied as I was typing my post already, but what he said is on the money.

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

it’s happening

[Xbobmad WANTED $729 Outlaw]

Biohazard wrote:

it’s happening

Step away from the keyboard bio, it’s so not worth it ☺️ I broke the blood pressure machine at the doctor’s today, I was reading the forum in the waiting room. Oops 😖

 

[farahtrousers WANTED $22 Outlaw]

I didn’t even realise it said “some paper” until you said that.

Cross-posting can be fun.

[farahtrousers WANTED $22 Outlaw]

Eightblack wrote:

I gotta be honest dude I don’t think that’s how it works.. I used play extra chili when we could bonus buy a stupid amount and it’s just the same as when they roll in, sometimes it blows the doors off, sometimes it kicks you in the dick.. that’s gambling lol

Yup. The only people who can state exactly what is happening, is those who are privy to the source. We can speculate but we’re chatting boll hocks beyond what we experience. “This machine is random” yet still pays a guaranteed profit and rtp. Random with the house edge in mind.

Here’s why not being a dev and speaking about what the actual devs know, is a bad idea.

[Eightblack WANTED $446 Outlaw]

Are you a slot developer?

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

Xbobmad wrote:

Biohazard wrote:

it’s happening

Step away from the keyboard bio, it’s so not worth it I broke the blood pressure machine at the doctor’s today, I was reading the forum in the waiting room. Oops

 

😂 Good advice! I shall remain at peace… For now.

Hope you’re all keeping well, it’s been a while!

[Nece606 WANTED $3 Outlaw]

I think its 2 seperate pots, bonus buy pot and normal spins pot

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