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AuthorPosts
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18th July 2018 at 2:27 pm #11566
i accept that the base games are random, but i dont think the bonus is random.
18th July 2018 at 4:29 pm #11570It’s all random, with the exception of pre-determined slots that are influenced on previous play (e.g. pub slots). The bonus itself is just a winning spin with a graphical/more entertaining front page to the win. In most cases as soon as the spin is made that triggers the bonus, the slot already knows what it is paying you – so it’s random in the sense of the spin, but pre-determined in relation to the outcome of the bonus.
The exception to this is slots that are dependant on the choices that you make (e.g. picks that are a random selection to the player). These are rare, and still arguably random as you will have no idea which picks are the good picks or not!
Hope this helps, but I have a feeling I may have confused you further!
123rd July 2018 at 7:56 pm #11929I hate those pick a selection slots- you always wonder whether it is random or not – it seems unrealistic that you can pick the “non pot” option 20 times out of 20 when you make the same choice every time – I’m sure it’s there just to tilt you 🙂
23rd July 2018 at 8:25 pm #11930It’s all random, with the exception of pre-determined slots that are influenced on previous play (e.g. pub slots). The bonus itself is just a winning spin with a graphical/more entertaining front page to the win. In most cases as soon as the spin is made that triggers the bonus, the slot already knows what it is paying you – so it’s random in the sense of the spin, but pre-determined in relation to the outcome of the bonus.
The exception to this is slots that are dependant on the choices that you make (e.g. picks that are a random selection to the player). These are rare, and still arguably random as you will have no idea which picks are the good picks or not!
Hope this helps, but I have a feeling I may have confused you further!
Would you say this includes Secret of the Stones for example? I can’t help but feel that your selections are pre-determined. My only real observation of this is the limited times I get any ‘wild help’, as the Bandit puts it, when I play it, though appreciate this is not exactly representative.
Would appreciate if you had any evidence to the contrary!
Mark
23rd July 2018 at 9:33 pm #11932To answer this as thoroughly as possible; as one person has already said, in many cases the spin which lands a bonus is random (as are all separate game spins) but what the bonus pays is determined at the point of that initial spin, therefore the feature element/free spins are just a presentation layer. However in other games, the actual bonus spins are also random but counted as part of the same game as the triggering spin. It’s very difficult in practice to tell with any reliability which games are which, however I believe most Novomatic game free spin bonuses are random and in respect of NetEnt’s Secret of the Stones, I can tell you from inspecting traffic between the client and server that it appears to maybe not be pre-determined (contrary to my expectations) insofar as it actually maps the feature picks (Wild Reel 2, +4 spins etc.) to positions on the board (though the numbering of the positions changes at random each time you land the scatters, meaning you cannot inspect traffic to cheat the game and know which stones to click on). But yeah from what I can tell on that particular game, it really does jumble up all the possible feature picks in random places and you get whatever you happen to click on. Certainly the base scatter land does not send any traffic to your device containing your total win for the bonus and the structure of the data makes it look like it’s not pre-determined, though it could still be that it is pre-determined on the server side.
2123rd July 2018 at 10:25 pm #11933It’s all random, with the exception of pre-determined slots that are influenced on previous play (e.g. pub slots). The bonus itself is just a winning spin with a graphical/more entertaining front page to the win. In most cases as soon as the spin is made that triggers the bonus, the slot already knows what it is paying you – so it’s random in the sense of the spin, but pre-determined in relation to the outcome of the bonus.
The exception to this is slots that are dependant on the choices that you make (e.g. picks that are a random selection to the player). These are rare, and still arguably random as you will have no idea which picks are the good picks or not!
Hope this helps, but I have a feeling I may have confused you further!
Would you say this includes Secret of the Stones for example? I can’t help but feel that your selections are pre-determined. My only real observation of this is the limited times I get any ‘wild help’, as the Bandit puts it, when I play it, though appreciate this is not exactly representative.
Would appreciate if you had any evidence to the contrary!
Mark
I believe the majority of slots (not all, I want to be very clear on that) that show you what you could have picked behind each object after you have finished picking are indeed randomly generated behind each object at the start of the bonus (so if a wild reel 2 pick was behind object 1, and you picked object 1, that’s exactly what you’d get). In terms of individual slots (i.e. Secret of the Stones) I honestly have no idea, but I’d lean towards the picking method I’ve just described, as Argyl53 above was saying.
See this interview here, it explains it quite well: https://youtu.be/hkhjZ00rsHQ?t=18m
24th July 2018 at 9:31 am #11957Picking games are predetermined, they have to be to obey the rules of the RNG as set out by the Gambling commission.
It doesn’t matter what you pick, it is already decided.
The fact that they show you what you could have picked is sailing very close to the legal wind as it suggests you could have made a better losing decision, but this is not the case. I believe these slots could actually be banned/forced to be modified by the Gambling commission if people complained enough. They are deceptive and mislead the player. IMO the question is asked often enough in gambling circles to constitute a “reasonable” misunderstanding of how they work. At the very least slots should be clearer about the fact that the picks are predetermined.It is easy to see for yourself if you download a program like fiddler and examine the incoming json payload to the slot which in the majority of slots is unencrypted. It clearly identifies the picks you will make before you click any buttons. If the picks are also monetary amounts the total will also be in the data.
This works slightly different in bonuses with free spins. Each spin is random as it must be so the total win amount is not predetermined.
So in secret of the stones for example, the picks are predetermined but the outcome of the free spins is not. These are individual random spins based on the modifiers.Hope this helps
1124th July 2018 at 6:19 pm #11984That’s what I was saying though; when I used Fiddler to inspect Secret of the Stones, it appears to not be pre-determined…it actually maps the picks to randomly numbered positions when you land the scatters.
124th July 2018 at 6:44 pm #11985See, I’m pretty sure that on many slots, it does matter what you pick. This doesn’t break any rules with the gambling commission as the user has no idea which picks are where, so it’s still actually random. It doesn’t actually matter which way the slots are developed, pre-determined or not, the end result is still random.
24th July 2018 at 6:58 pm #11988On the flip-side though, the data from Secret of the Stones received by the game client may only be for presentation purposes when revealing the “what you could have picked” stones….after all, what happens if you pick one stone, then reload the game part-way through the game round before making a second pick? I haven’t tried it, but if someone gives it a go and when the game re-loads the partial round, selects a different stone, you would expect it to come up with the same pick as I think GC rules are such that the entire outcome of the game including bonus should already be determined and logged at that point. Like, if you abort a game part-way through, it has to be the same game when you go back in.
24th July 2018 at 7:35 pm #11990On the flip-side though, the data from Secret of the Stones received by the game client may only be for presentation purposes when revealing the “what you could have picked” stones….after all, what happens if you pick one stone, then reload the game part-way through the game round before making a second pick? I haven’t tried it, but if someone gives it a go and when the game re-loads the partial round, selects a different stone, you would expect it to come up with the same pick as I think GC rules are such that the entire outcome of the game including bonus should already be determined and logged at that point. Like, if you abort a game part-way through, it has to be the same game when you go back in.
Interesting point. I would assume that once a pick is made, that transfer of data has already happened so reloading would result in the same pick for that pick. Does feel a bit convoluted though I must admit. There are quite a few interviews with game developers that do openly say that in some games, picks do matter, unless they’re just outright lying?
24th July 2018 at 9:42 pm #12005Yeah this is the thing; I’m a developer and while I don’t work in the gambling industry, I do know people who do and so I know a bit more about how online slots work than the average punter and I know that in some games, the bonus element itself is definitely random and the outcome not pre-determined at the point of landing it. But I don’t know which games. I try to get an idea as mentioned by inspecting the traffic to see which games send the win data in the initiating spin but you can’t always tell for every title.
24th July 2018 at 11:07 pm #12011the only random element on casino online slot games is luck everything else is predetermined, the base game plus any bonus round you get
regardless of choice of picks. all are predetermined the bonus you get the number of free spins the amount you win. When you select a slot to play, the casino computer downloads to your computer an image of the game. ONLY you will ever play that game no one else on the planet will play the same slot as you. its not like a lending library you don,t put it back for someone else to use its like a puppy its yours for life.
. I have played online slots for many years, when online slots started i discovered that if i took a photo of the slot before i closed it if i waited a week then went back to it, i would find the slot exactly as i left it,As this was a bit of a give away the casinos have now given every slot a home page so now when you go on any casino site and say pick raging rhino every game starts from the same home page hardly random. but who needs random ( i love watching the bandit play the gamble money ladder fail,fail , fail then every now and again the big win ) the win predetermined, the random element luck. also the online casinos make such an obscene amount of money they can give huge wins with their
slots for very little outlay on your part, and they are really good fun to play. As with everything else there are winners and losers. On online slots there are many many more losers than winners. as for any governing body or any legislation to control online casinos ha ha ha ha ha
24th July 2018 at 11:40 pm #12012Word is from Microgaming
There features do not matter If it pays it pays
So just keep on Picking Amber
9th August 2018 at 2:23 am #13062Picking games are predetermined, they have to be to obey the rules of the RNG as set out by the Gambling commission.
It doesn’t matter what you pick, it is already decided. The fact that they show you what you could have picked is sailing very close to the legal wind as it suggests you could have made a better losing decision, but this is not the case. I believe these slots could actually be banned/forced to be modified by the Gambling commission if people complained enough. They are deceptive and mislead the player. IMO the question is asked often enough in gambling circles to constitute a “reasonable” misunderstanding of how they work. At the very least slots should be clearer about the fact that the picks are predetermined.
It is easy to see for yourself if you download a program like fiddler and examine the incoming json payload to the slot which in the majority of slots is unencrypted. It clearly identifies the picks you will make before you click any buttons. If the picks are also monetary amounts the total will also be in the data.
This works slightly different in bonuses with free spins. Each spin is random as it must be so the total win amount is not predetermined.
So in secret of the stones for example, the picks are predetermined but the outcome of the free spins is not. These are individual random spins based on the modifiers.Hope this helps
You are incorrect and correct.
It depends on the game, however as some have already said if your shown at the end it generally means it was a true pick if not it was pre determined.
I have worked on slots as well as SIMs, and once before we even did one that learnt player behavior and it adjusted the picks before the first pick to try and guess where the player would pick, eg if they pick the same each time etc. As long as its done before the player picks its totally allowed, or it used to be not sure now with all the new rules lol
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AuthorPosts
are the bonuses random generated
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