Auditing question

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  • #88610
    GaryBannister60 WANTED $3
    Outlaw

    Be gentle with me….first time poster. Probably a stupid question.

    Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on something I have always wondered. I know that each game in an online casino has an RTP. Who monitors that the casinos / games actually do pay these out over the set period of time?

    For example, say PP has 400 games on its site. In one financial year it takes say £500 million. By the RTP it should make no more than a 4-5% profit on these games, correct? So who makes sure that they only make this profit and no more?

    Or is that too simplistic a way of looking at it?

    I know RTP is set over a huge number of plays. I am just wondering as I’ve been playing these games for 20 years, so must have done billions of spins. There isn’t a way in the world that I got 94% back or whatever it is. Now I know that isn’t unexpected, but it just got me thinking. Who actually makes sure the RTP / casinos / bookies pay out the right amount, and how do they do that?

    Cheers in advance

    #88627
    Seyahkram1977 WANTED $163
    Outlaw

    Good question mate…. there’s a few experts on that here who can answer it….. they might be In Bed at the moment the lazy dogs ……

    #88629
    argyl53 WANTED $387
    Outlaw

    In the UK, the Gambling Commission are responsible for this kind of oversight.

    In respect of RTP compliance, this is one of the things checked as part of adherence to design and technical standards before a game is released to the public. These tests are conducted by an independent test house and the UKGC has a list of these companies which they have approved.

    Otherwise, the GC will periodically in accordance with their own risk assessments associated with each licensee carry out compliance assessments and requests for information and records. This can include site visits, audit trails, finances etc.

    Short version is we have some of the most stringent regulation in the world for online gambling and you can be reliably happy that if you’re playing on a UK licensed site, everything is proper and above board. Huge fines can and have been handed down for breaches of licence.

    #88634
    Biohazard WANTED $567
    Outlaw

    GaryBannister60 wrote:

    I know RTP is set over a huge number of plays. I am just wondering as I’ve been playing these games for 20 years, so must have done billions of spins. There isn’t a way in the world that I got 94% back or whatever it is.

    You’d be surprised! If you have done a billion spins, and the games you have been playing have a theoretical RTP of 94%, assuming that you are keeping to the same bet size and not some wide adjustments, you should be very close to 94%. It always feels worse than it is as we refilter that money back through, so it gets less and less.

    For example, let’s say you play through £100 on £1 spins, so 100 spins. The theoretical RTP of 94% would indicate you should end up around £94 (this would never be the case for such a small sample size, but bear with me). You then play another 100 spins – you’re now on £88.36. And as gamblers, we keep going. Eventually this’ll just keep trickling down to zero a lot of the time.

    Slots are volatile, so the above example isn’t real world. But over billions of spins, it is a lot more realistic. Look up the law of large numbers for more info on this.

    Remember, RTP is based on wagers, not on deposits.

    #88630
    GaryBannister60 WANTED $3
    Outlaw

    That’s great, thankyou so much. So the testing and security is at the game level, rather than the bookmaker’s website level? Presumably they just embed these games so they can’t do any “adjustments”?. You have put my mind at rest, so thanks.

    #88637
    argyl53 WANTED $387
    Outlaw

    GaryBannister60 wrote:

    That’s great, thankyou so much. So the testing and security is at the game level, rather than the bookmaker’s website level? Presumably they just embed these games so they can’t do any “adjustments”?. You have put my mind at rest, so thanks.

    Just to clear up this last point for you, yes the games are hosted by their vendors not the individual casinos. When you play Book of Ra, you’re playing it on Greentube’s servers regardless of which casino you’re playing at. In software terms, the casino is like middleware, responsible for vouching for the authenticity of your bet and balance and updating your account in accordance with the game outcome.

    #88638
    Seyahkram1977 WANTED $163
    Outlaw

    Biohazard wrote:

    GaryBannister60 wrote:

    I know RTP is set over a huge number of plays. I am just wondering as I’ve been playing these games for 20 years, so must have done billions of spins. There isn’t a way in the world that I got 94% back or whatever it is.

    You’d be surprised! If you have done a billion spins, and the games you have been playing have a theoretical RTP of 94%, assuming that you are keeping to the same bet size and not some wide adjustments, you should be very close to 94%. It always feels worse than it is as we refilter that money back through, so it gets less and less.

    For example, let’s say you play through £100 on £1 spins, so 100 spins. The theoretical RTP of 94% would indicate you should end up around £94 (this would never be the case for such a small sample size, but bear with me). You then play another 100 spins – you’re now on £88.36. And as gamblers, we keep going. Eventually this’ll just keep trickling down to zero a lot of the time.

    Slots are volatile, so the above example isn’t real world. But over billions of spins, it is a lot more realistic. Look up the law of large numbers for more info on this.

    Remember, RTP is based on wagers, not on deposits.

    Such a good break down ….

    #88646
    eejit101 WANTED $271
    Outlaw

    To add one thing, well two, casinos cannot edit or adjust the RTP of a game at all. Only the provider can. Most providers only offer an RTP around 96%. Some (novo) avg at 95%. Some offer variants (Red Tiger has 89/93/96 i believe). The casinos pick the ones they want and thats what you play.

    As for “billions of spins” – it may feel like that but i play almost every day, real money, either testing or playing for me, and after tracking i guessed i had done about 1mil spins. Turned out was 160k. Feel like more!

    #88636
    GaryBannister60 WANTED $3
    Outlaw

    >>  Remember, RTP is based on wagers, not on deposits.

     

    Aha……finally I get where my thinking is askew. That does make total sense now. You are a star, thanks!

     

     

    #88725
    Masquerade WANTED $10
    Outlaw

    Nice breakdown.

    One more question. Do you think individual casinos should publish an ‘adjusted RTP’ when they cap the winnings allowed per game dependant on the stake size?

    (Or are the numbers likely to be so insignificant?)

     

    Ade

    #88726
    eejit101 WANTED $271
    Outlaw

    that wont really work, as most capped wins dont ever get hit anyway. It will be super insignificant as they will limit the mental slots like DOA2 to 9$ max

    #88735
    Green2711 WANTED $488
    Outlaw

    Bio has explained it nicely but I’ll add that if your interested in knowing your overall RTP on a site then contact the casino and they should be able to tell you your overall RTP as well as what your RTP is running at on specific games.

    This is one of the reasons I used to like Videoslots before they reduced their RTP. They have a section which will tell you your overall RTP for the year and then a section below that which tells you what your RTP is on every game you’ve played.

    #88768
    Masquerade WANTED $10
    Outlaw

    Thanks Eejit,

    I did wonder but don’t have the patience with slots to play them much….. apart from DHV and Goonies (for childhood nostalgia).

    #88800
    Seyahkram1977 WANTED $163
    Outlaw

    Green2711 wrote:

    Bio has explained it nicely but I’ll add that if your interested in knowing your overall RTP on a site then contact the casino and they should be able to tell you your overall RTP as well as what your RTP is running at on specific games.

    This is one of the reasons I used to like Videoslots before they reduced their RTP. They have a section which will tell you your overall RTP for the year and then a section below that which tells you what your RTP is on every game you’ve played.

    Yeah the rtp section in videoslots is a nice touch …. also 21 casino has a pre game breakdown of the slot you pick … which includes its rtp … which seems like such a an easy way to do it so….and each game has this breakdown before you confirm you want to play that game

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)