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[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

@awesomex you are wrong I’m afraid. I try not to get sucked into these debates anymore after having had them thousands of times before, however what you are saying is harmful and incorrect, so it’s important that the story is put straight.

Other members have already articulated how online slots work quite nicely, so I won’t duplicate the effort and repeat what they have said.

However, it does always baffle me when people bring up random not being able to guarantee RTP. Randomness is an excellent control mechanism. Short term, yes, it is volatile, and yes there is the slim chance that someone could win the jackpot several times in a row (which can be mitigated in itself with max payouts, max bet caps etc.), however long term the actual RTP will be broadly in-line with the theoretical RTP.

How does this work? The law of large numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

I give up. If you want to claim you understand the meaning of random, while saying “random enough” is random, you’re a lost cause, and have no sense of logics at all.

[awesomex WANTED $136 Outlaw]

Let me just add that I’m a mensa member with a measured and verified IQ of 180. Only 1 in 3.5 million people understand logics as well as I do, so unless you’re one of them, you’re not even gonna be able to follow the argument on the level I’m presenting it.

I see patterns in everything, and everyone still stand on their claims that their man made products are random. It makes no sense at all.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

If there was such a thing as true randomness, you could end up winning the jackpot/highest payout 10 spins in a row at max stake, and if that was possible, a casino could go bankrupt over 10 spins on a slot machine. True randomness is the only thing that is random. “Random enough” means it’s not really random, which means there are certain parameters set that prevents payouts to be too big.

Example: BTG says their slots can have a set max payout on any given spin/sequence, and it’s different from casino to casino. How do you take this into randomness? The answer is: You can’t.

Slot code HAS to be programmed so you can only get certain combinations x amount of times over x amount of spins. Without it, there is no way to guarantee a profitable slot, or even guarantee the RTP.

You can end up winning the jackpot 10 spins in a row on max stake. It’s considerably less likely to happen that getting struck by a meteor and lightning in the same day, but it is theoretically possible. What prevents the casino going bankrupt in this highly unlikely situation is their terms and conditions, which will almost state a maximum win in a given time frame (for example, one of the casinos I used to regularly play at caps your winnings at £250k per day).

Some games also have win limits set in the game itself for any single spin / feature. This quite simply means if you hit that limit, the game round will end immediately. If I have a game where I toss a coin and for heads I pay £2, for two heads in a row I pay £5 and for three heads in a row, I pay £100 but also I have a win cap of £50…guess what happens if you hit three heads in a row? What happens is you got 3 random results and I pay you £50. What doesn’t happen is the coin flip magically becomes not random for the final toss.

Finally, long term RTP is essentially guaranteed by the mathematics of probability, as Biohazard has already pointed out. It is simply a mathematical fact that over millions of random spins, the results will statistically reflect the designed RTP.

[ar argyl53 WANTED $419 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

Let me just add that I’m a mensa member with a measured and verified IQ of 180. Only 1 in 3.5 million people understand logics as well as I do, so unless you’re one of them, you’re not even gonna be able to follow the argument on the level I’m presenting it.

I see patterns in everything, and everyone still stand on their claims that their man made products are random. It makes no sense at all.

? yeah that’s it buddy, you’re an unrivalled genius and none of us with our fancy-pants degrees in maths and computer science can possibly understand your superior “logics”. I mean, you’ve all but presented us with a PhD thesis in your comments so far. ???

[Biohazard WANTED $675 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

Let me just add that I’m a mensa member with a measured and verified IQ of 180. Only 1 in 3.5 million people understand logics as well as I do, so unless you’re one of them, you’re not even gonna be able to follow the argument on the level I’m presenting it.

I see patterns in everything, and everyone still stand on their claims that their man made products are random. It makes no sense at all.

Wow. ?

[Malkychamp WANTED $485 Outlaw]

Me too smart, you dumb dumb no understand. Incase you couldn’t follow ?

There is only 1 way to settle this… we must ask rosh ?

[TheReelStory WANTED $14 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

I give up. If you want to claim you understand the meaning of random, while saying “random enough” is random, you’re a lost cause, and have no sense of logics at all.

You seem to misunderstand the impact that randomness plays. Even IF something isn’t truly random, that just means it is predictable. Predictability in gambling is in the PLAYERS favour, NOT the Casino.

So let’s do a couple of examples.

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Example 1</span>

A predictable RNG algorithm is being used (such as the Mersenne Twister) which means, if I know 624 results, I can predict the RNG. How does this effect a slot? Well, I should be able to predict the result, but I have to know a few things.

a) I am the only one playing, so all the numbers I get are in sequence

b) That the numbers that are used by the slot are the actual RNG results, not transformed versions of the RNG result (I.E, taking a number and transforming it mathematically to a range of reel stops, say 0-100).

c) The reel sets of the slots in question so I know what stop positions are wins and what aren’t

d) Have a method of ‘skipping’ the bad results of the RNG (it would have to be someone else playing and losing money at this point) so I can take the good results.

Even if I had all this information, it would be in my favour. I’d be able to beat the Casino. If I don’t have all this information, I cannot predict the RNG, therefore, from my perspective, the outcome is still unknown and random.

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Example 2</span>

Let’s say that, rather than using an RNG, a slot has a set of pre-programmed results in a sequence. So a Casino would know, spin by spin, what the result would be and when the sequence is exhausted, the RTP was 96% and the slot stops working.

To predict the result I need to know

a) The sequence

b) Where in the sequence I start playing

c) How many others are playing so I know how quickly the sequence is getting run through

If I know all those things, I can predict outcomes and beat the Casino. If I don’t know all those things, from my perspective the outcome is unknown and random.

(P.S, this would also be illegal)

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Conclusion</span>

1. To the player, it doesn’t really matter how random the RNG is, as there are so many other factors in play.

2. A predictable RNG is in the players favour, not the Casino’s.

3. The maths is already against you. An RTP of <100% means you WILL lose eventually. You might win in the short term, but overall, you will lose.

The issue you are describing isn’t a lack of true randomness, it’s a lack of randomness AT ALL. I.E, the Casino watches your play and chooses when you win or lose. Sure, that’d be awful (and is illegal and also stupid and borderline impossible). This simply isn’t how it works.

Check my RTP video on YouTube, please. I literally write and walk through a very simple slot. It shows how they are built, work and how the RTP is determined and adjusted. You have some deeply ingrained ideas about this stuff but they are utterly misinformed and you’ve tied together several pieces of logic into a result that actually makes no sense because you don’t fully understand how the pieces truly interact with each other.

[Haz40 WANTED $1,166 Outlaw]

I have 5 GCSE’s C and above plus a GNVQ level 4 in business and finance. Does that qualify for joining this debate? ????

[TheReelStory WANTED $14 Outlaw]

awesomex wrote:

Let me just add that I’m a mensa member with a measured and verified IQ of 180. Only 1 in 3.5 million people understand logics as well as I do, so unless you’re one of them, you’re not even gonna be able to follow the argument on the level I’m presenting it.

I see patterns in everything, and everyone still stand on their claims that their man made products are random. It makes no sense at all.

Ok, that’s fine. You understand randomness and patterns better than us. No problem. What you don’t understand is how or why randomness matters or is implemented in a slot game. You also don’t understand how slots are designed and operate.

You can be the rain man of randomness, but if you don’t truly understand what impact randomness is having on a particular implementation, then it really doesn’t matter how well you know that subject, because you lack all the rest of the crucial context.

The RNG is a tiny tiny component of a slot machine. And the Slot Machine is a tiny component in the machine that is a Casino and the Players. You need to understand all of it.

[Xbobmad WANTED $729 Outlaw]

Haz40 wrote:

I have 5 GCSE’s C and above plus a GNVQ level 4 in business and finance. Does that qualify for joining this debate? ????

I have a headache like someone is kicking my head really really hard… I’m keeping out of this one. It’s gone massively off topic 🙂

[Haz40 WANTED $1,166 Outlaw]

Xbobmad wrote:

Haz40 wrote:

I have 5 GCSE’s C and above plus a GNVQ level 4 in business and finance. Does that qualify for joining this debate?

I have a headache like someone is kicking my head really really hard… I’m keeping out of this one. It’s gone massively off topic

A thread on biam going off topic. That’s a new one. ??

[Malkychamp WANTED $485 Outlaw]

Haz40 wrote:

I have 5 GCSE’s C and above plus a GNVQ level 4 in business and finance. Does that qualify for joining this debate?

Not even close. I have some crayons and a sand box that would be better suited for you ???

[Haz40 WANTED $1,166 Outlaw]

Malkychamp wrote:

Haz40 wrote:

I have 5 GCSE’s C and above plus a GNVQ level 4 in business and finance. Does that qualify for joining this debate?

Not even close. I have some crayons and a sand box that would be better suited for you

How did you know my hobby. Have you been spying on me again? ??

[benq99 WANTED $229 Outlaw]

its like farting its random if you follow through and shit your self

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