Brexit….Fed up of it ?

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  • #58629
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
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    They’re really disingenuous. For Wednesday’s indicative votes they whipped for a confirmatory referendum on any deal, and then clarified this was only on a ‘damaging Tory Brexit’ and wouldn’t apply if they somehow won an election. But they basically support May’s deal and if you add a customs union it’s Labour’s Brexit!! So their plan is to force May to pass Labour’s Brexit which Labour will oppose if that causes a general election and Labour win they’ll … pass the same deal? (It’s extremely unlikely Labour will win a majority any time soon – they’d need SNP + others votes who would all make a referendum a sine qua non).

     

    As for what their plan is – imo it’s usually a mistake to ascribe too much thinking to Magic Grandpa/his Stalinist advisors. But since May is trying to fit ten pegs in nine holes it might be politically savvy to take a step back and let her fail. I think they should try to find a compromise but it’s not like she reached out to them in 2017. And hoping to force a general election which they could win – as I said I think they’ve acted disingenuously – that’s standard politics tbh.

    But sure its all Labour’s fault..I won’t be replying to your posts anymore because your an Idiot youtube conspiracy fanatic.

    #58630
    Eightblack WANTED $446
    Outlaw

    We are currenlty ruled by a majority remain, selfish government who do not have “the people’s” best interests at heart, call a general election as they are, at this point incompetent.

    https://youtu.be/LKJlQmq1S1M

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    #58722
    Patty1974 WANTED $37
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    I don’t think the Conservatives or Labour have any answers as to what happens next. As for the country never having it so good…the only people having it good in this countrŷ are the work shy who have no interest in working and thmain hobbies include breeding like fucking rabbits and spending their “wages” on drink and luxuries that ordinary working families can’t afford. The school yards are full of them boasting about holidays away and how much they just spent on their new phones etc while I used to rush about like an idiot after finishing work to pick my child up. The benefits system is geared towards giving liars and bluffers all the money they need due to mental illnesses which most of them don’t have but know fine well it can’t be proved. I would vote for any party who made sorting this country out their priority and giving the genuine hard working people some hope of a better future. As for immigration the problem there was opening the doors for way too many extra bodies than we could cope with and then letting companies take their businesses abroad. I honestly think if UKIP got some decent policies for the next General Election, they would do quite well. People have no confidence in the current bunch after all this pissing about over Brexit. It’s going to worse before it gets better. ?

    #58726
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
    Outlaw

    Patty1974 wrote:

    I don’t think the Conservatives or Labour have any answers as to what happens next. As for the country never having it so good…the only people having it good in this countrŷ are the work shy who have no interest in working and thmain hobbies include breeding like fucking rabbits and spending their “wages” on drink and luxuries that ordinary working families can’t afford. The school yards are full of them boasting about holidays away and how much they just spent on their new phones etc while I used to rush about like an idiot after finishing work to pick my child up. The benefits system is geared towards giving liars and bluffers all the money they need due to mental illnesses which most of them don’t have but know fine well it can’t be proved. I would vote for any party who made sorting this country out their priority and giving the genuine hard working people some hope of a better future. As for immigration the problem there was opening the doors for way too many extra bodies than we could cope with and then letting companies take their businesses abroad. I honestly think if UKIP got some decent policies for the next General Election, they would do quite well. People have no confidence in the current bunch after all this pissing about over Brexit. It’s going to worse before it gets better. ?

    Gotta say I mostly agree here, although I don’t care what the work shy get, we could all do with less working our ass off hours ? There again I do see life or dream that we could be a utopia ?

    But I think a 30 hour work week would be cool and better for society as a whole, and would encourage a lot back into full time employment.

    I just believe families are important ✌️

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    #58728
    Haz40 WANTED $1,166
    Outlaw

    I don’t know much about politics but i know one thing my working week is about 5 hours longer than about 2 years ago. I travel at least 1000 miles a week and the roads and motorways are chaos. Every journey is longer than it used to be meaning less time at home with my family. Is this because the country’s population has increased? Is it because of immigration and more people entering the uk than leaving? As a self employed worker my income doesn’t even increase been at work for longer.

    #58732
    awesomex WANTED $136
    Outlaw

    Haz40 wrote:

    I don’t know much about politics but i know one thing my working week is about 5 hours longer than about 2 years ago. I travel at least 1000 miles a week and the roads and motorways are chaos. Every journey is longer than it used to be meaning less time at home with my family. Is this because the country’s population has increased? Is it because of immigration and more people entering the uk than leaving? As a self employed worker my income doesn’t even increase been at work for longer.

    It’s cus of immigration and socialism. You may not believe it, but they’re pushing socialism. All western countries are, except America (currently).

    They increase the population through immigration. Then they subtly force socialism, but they hide it from the people. Most people don’t see it until it’s there.
    Here’s a story from a friend:
    He went to report on what’s going on in a country. This was a couple of years ago. He decided he was gonna get a local phone and phone number, cus he was gonna spend some time there. So he went to the shop.
    What happened there was he had to talk to 8 people, fill out and sign 3 forms, and it all amounted to 2 hours. To buy a phone. Which takes 5-10 minutes with 1 guy helping you.
    The country he visited was venezuela. They had 8 people do the job of 1 person, with tons of extra useless bullshit pushed into it to make people have to do something for their money.

    See, socialism fails for a number of reasons. But the key part of noticing socialism is when you notice how long it takes to do simple shit. That’s a clear sign you’re heading towards socialism.

    Your politicians don’t work for you. They think they’re better than you. They abuse their power to get themselves into more power. And as they make more and more laws, you’re left with less and less to work with when you finally understand it’s time for an uprising, meaning you’re helpless.
    Look at history. It never lies. And I AM NEVER WRONG! LISTEN TO ME FFS!

    #58740
    Patty1974 WANTED $37
    Outlaw

    Stevie25 wrote:

    Patty1974 wrote:

    I don’t think the Conservatives or Labour have any answers as to what happens next. As for the country never having it so good…the only people having it good in this countrŷ are the work shy who have no interest in working and thmain hobbies include breeding like fucking rabbits and spending their “wages” on drink and luxuries that ordinary working families can’t afford. The school yards are full of them boasting about holidays away and how much they just spent on their new phones etc while I used to rush about like an idiot after finishing work to pick my child up. The benefits system is geared towards giving liars and bluffers all the money they need due to mental illnesses which most of them don’t have but know fine well it can’t be proved. I would vote for any party who made sorting this country out their priority and giving the genuine hard working people some hope of a better future. As for immigration the problem there was opening the doors for way too many extra bodies than we could cope with and then letting companies take their businesses abroad. I honestly think if UKIP got some decent policies for the next General Election, they would do quite well. People have no confidence in the current bunch after all this pissing about over Brexit. It’s going to worse before it gets better. ?

    Gotta say I mostly agree here, although I don’t care what the work shy get, we could all do with less working our ass off hours ? There again I do see life or dream that we could be a utopia ?

    But I think a 30 hour work week would be cool and better for society as a whole, and would encourage a lot back into full time employment.

    I just believe families are important ✌

    Families are probably the most important issue. I’m in my 40’s and grew up with both of my parents who had their ups and downs but provided a decent upbringing where I learned a work ethic from my early teenage years. My Mother was a nurse and my Dad was a Baker. They worked long hours at times to save for holidays and other things and when they were in an affordable position to do so they had another child. Not wanting to rely on Benefits which had a stigma in those days was the reason they waited. Nowadays the parents a getting younger…too young in most cases and they are having kid after kid because they don’t have to provide for them. Most families today seem to consist of multiple children by different fathers which is a huge part of the problem. Too many teenagers having children when they are not mature enough to cope with their own lives…when did the law change where kids under 16 were able to just have kids without any consequences. Not to mention the fact that some of the Fathers are in their 20’s….surely an offence in itself. Kids are being born into families that are career benefit claimants and they learn the system as they grow up. Me and my wife have been together 25 years and I doubt that any of the other parents collecting their children could say they had been with their current partner for 5 years. Kids decide now that if they don’t feel like going to school then they don’t have to…and nothing gets done. If I had tried to pull that stunt I would have been in serious shit. I probably sound like an old git but family life is nothing like it was when I was a kid…learning to respect people and that if you want the good things in life you have to earn them. Sadly this has been replaced by the I want that so I will take it attitude! Very troubling.

    #58768
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
    Outlaw

    Haz40 wrote:

    I don’t know much about politics but i know one thing my working week is about 5 hours longer than about 2 years ago. I travel at least 1000 miles a week and the roads and motorways are chaos. Every journey is longer than it used to be meaning less time at home with my family. Is this because the country’s population has increased? Is it because of immigration and more people entering the uk than leaving? As a self employed worker my income doesn’t even increase been at work for longer.

    Population growth coupled with less infrastructure..

    http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/

    And just more people driving in general like more women being able to afford their own vehicles ??✌️ And it didn’t help that our railways & Roads have not been maintained.

    Maybe when we bring all our immigrants home it will stop the noise from the NF’s off the world or is it the case that we don’t send immigration to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand to name a few and they just emigrated.

    Maybe the Torys can win over hearts with the new bus slogan of “Don’t be an Immigrant, when you can emigrate”

    I dunno, maybe if we stopped going on holiday to these exotic places and shithole country’s they would stop getting Ideas, just a thought though.

    It still gives me a chuckle thou, that the ex-pats voted for Brexit.. ?Talk about shooting yourself in the foot ?

    And the Costa Del Crime crew will be back before they can say Bo. ?

    Strange times indeed.

    #58779
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
    Outlaw

    awesomex wrote:

    Haz40 wrote:

    I don’t know much about politics but i know one thing my working week is about 5 hours longer than about 2 years ago. I travel at least 1000 miles a week and the roads and motorways are chaos. Every journey is longer than it used to be meaning less time at home with my family. Is this because the country’s population has increased? Is it because of immigration and more people entering the uk than leaving? As a self employed worker my income doesn’t even increase been at work for longer.

    It’s cus of immigration and socialism. You may not believe it, but they’re pushing socialism. All western countries are, except America (currently).

    They increase the population through immigration. Then they subtly force socialism, but they hide it from the people. Most people don’t see it until it’s there. Here’s a story from a friend:
    He went to report on what’s going on in a country. This was a couple of years ago. He decided he was gonna get a local phone and phone number, cus he was gonna spend some time there. So he went to the shop.
    What happened there was he had to talk to 8 people, fill out and sign 3 forms, and it all amounted to 2 hours. To buy a phone. Which takes 5-10 minutes with 1 guy helping you.
    The country he visited was venezuela. They had 8 people do the job of 1 person, with tons of extra useless bullshit pushed into it to make people have to do something for their money.

    See, socialism fails for a number of reasons. But the key part of noticing socialism is when you notice how long it takes to do simple shit. That’s a clear sign you’re heading towards socialism.

    Your politicians don’t work for you. They think they’re better than you. They abuse their power to get themselves into more power. And as they make more and more laws, you’re left with less and less to work with when you finally understand it’s time for an uprising, meaning you’re helpless.
    Look at history. It never lies. And I AM NEVER WRONG! LISTEN TO ME FFS!

     

    #58782
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
    Outlaw

    Patty1974 wrote:

    Stevie25 wrote:

    Patty1974 wrote:

    I don’t think the Conservatives or Labour have any answers as to what happens next. As for the country never having it so good…the only people having it good in this countrŷ are the work shy who have no interest in working and thmain hobbies include breeding like fucking rabbits and spending their “wages” on drink and luxuries that ordinary working families can’t afford. The school yards are full of them boasting about holidays away and how much they just spent on their new phones etc while I used to rush about like an idiot after finishing work to pick my child up. The benefits system is geared towards giving liars and bluffers all the money they need due to mental illnesses which most of them don’t have but know fine well it can’t be proved. I would vote for any party who made sorting this country out their priority and giving the genuine hard working people some hope of a better future. As for immigration the problem there was opening the doors for way too many extra bodies than we could cope with and then letting companies take their businesses abroad. I honestly think if UKIP got some decent policies for the next General Election, they would do quite well. People have no confidence in the current bunch after all this pissing about over Brexit. It’s going to worse before it gets better. ?

    Gotta say I mostly agree here, although I don’t care what the work shy get, we could all do with less working our ass off hours ? There again I do see life or dream that we could be a utopia ?

    But I think a 30 hour work week would be cool and better for society as a whole, and would encourage a lot back into full time employment.

    I just believe families are important ✌

    Families are probably the most important issue. I’m in my 40’s and grew up with both of my parents who had their ups and downs but provided a decent upbringing where I learned a work ethic from my early teenage years. My Mother was a nurse and my Dad was a Baker. They worked long hours at times to save for holidays and other things and when they were in an affordable position to do so they had another child. Not wanting to rely on Benefits which had a stigma in those days was the reason they waited. Nowadays the parents a getting younger…too young in most cases and they are having kid after kid because they don’t have to provide for them. Most families today seem to consist of multiple children by different fathers which is a huge part of the problem. Too many teenagers having children when they are not mature enough to cope with their own lives…when did the law change where kids under 16 were able to just have kids without any consequences. Not to mention the fact that some of the Fathers are in their 20’s….surely an offence in itself. Kids are being born into families that are career benefit claimants and they learn the system as they grow up. Me and my wife have been together 25 years and I doubt that any of the other parents collecting their children could say they had been with their current partner for 5 years. Kids decide now that if they don’t feel like going to school then they don’t have to…and nothing gets done. If I had tried to pull that stunt I would have been in serious shit. I probably sound like an old git but family life is nothing like it was when I was a kid…learning to respect people and that if you want the good things in life you have to earn them. Sadly this has been replaced by the I want that so I will take it attitude! Very troubling.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/mar2017/previous/v1

    2.Why is the population growing?
    The growth in population size is partly because the population is ageing. The percentage of the population that is 65 years or older is growing. It increased between 1975 and 2015, from 14.1% of the population to 17.8%. It is projected to continue to grow to nearly a quarter of the population by 2045 (Table 1). This is an important consideration for the provision of health and social care services and pensions.

    #58819
    Stevie25 WANTED $254
    Outlaw

    awesomex wrote:

    Haz40 wrote:

    I don’t know much about politics but i know one thing my working week is about 5 hours longer than about 2 years ago. I travel at least 1000 miles a week and the roads and motorways are chaos. Every journey is longer than it used to be meaning less time at home with my family. Is this because the country’s population has increased? Is it because of immigration and more people entering the uk than leaving? As a self employed worker my income doesn’t even increase been at work for longer.

    It’s cus of immigration and socialism. You may not believe it, but they’re pushing socialism. All western countries are, except America (currently).

    They increase the population through immigration. Then they subtly force socialism, but they hide it from the people. Most people don’t see it until it’s there. Here’s a story from a friend:
    He went to report on what’s going on in a country. This was a couple of years ago. He decided he was gonna get a local phone and phone number, cus he was gonna spend some time there. So he went to the shop.
    What happened there was he had to talk to 8 people, fill out and sign 3 forms, and it all amounted to 2 hours. To buy a phone. Which takes 5-10 minutes with 1 guy helping you.
    The country he visited was venezuela. They had 8 people do the job of 1 person, with tons of extra useless bullshit pushed into it to make people have to do something for their money.

    See, socialism fails for a number of reasons. But the key part of noticing socialism is when you notice how long it takes to do simple shit. That’s a clear sign you’re heading towards socialism.

    Your politicians don’t work for you. They think they’re better than you. They abuse their power to get themselves into more power. And as they make more and more laws, you’re left with less and less to work with when you finally understand it’s time for an uprising, meaning you’re helpless.
    Look at history. It never lies. And I AM NEVER WRONG! LISTEN TO ME FFS!

    “We must rapidly begin the shift from a “thing-oriented” society to a “person-oriented” society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.”

     

    Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1967

    It’s a very well established theory. The “three triplets”, and other such monsters, are the symptoms. The disease is hierarchy… a hierarchy which enforces valuing “profit motives and property rights” over all.

     

    An activist who is, say, “race reductive”, might say “I’m just going to struggle against racism, working folk (in general), woman folk (in general) ain’t my fight”. An activist who is, say, “class reductive”, might say “I’m just going to struggle against the employing class, black folk (in general), woman folk (in general) ain’t my fight”. An activist who is, say, “patriarchy reductive”, might say “I’m just going to struggle against the patriarchy structures, black folk (in general), and working folk (in general) ain’t my fight”.

     

    All three of these activists are confusing “their” pet symptom for the disease. None of these strategies can ever succeed in isolation, as the disease remains, and will always re-emerge. The above situation is an obvious recipe for being the victim of a “divide and rule” counter-strategy.

     

    Also, consider this: I fully realize the above “reductive” strategies are not what the “rightist” elements of the MSM mean when they desirably use the term “identity politics”. But… isn’t this really something that kinda smells the same to you?

    To remain at the top of a violent hierarchy, a small minority must work at fostering divisions in the majority below them. Divide and conquer continue extracting profit. If white working folk are being paid more $$$ for the same work as black folk… this sets up a dynamic where white working folk can (mistakenly) fear their wages will go down if black working folk gain equality, and black working folk can (not always mistakenly) blame white working folk for supporting the status quo.

     

    Likewise, if male working folk are being paid more $$$ for the same work as woman folk… this sets up a dynamic where male working folk can (mistakenly) fear their wages will go down if woman working folk gain equality, and woman working folk can (not always mistakenly) blame male working folk for supporting the status quo. Rinse and repeat for religions, language, regionalism, etc/etc/etc.

     

    What should be noted here, and again highlighting the dysfunction and toxic nature inherent in ‘class reductivism’/etc, is this: it’s the exact same small minority at the top of the same hierarchy. Key takeaway: In a society where different kinds of “privilege” are entrenched, none can be confronted in isolation of the others.

     

    So, maybe in parts of China, both “Han privilege” and “male privilege” are entrenched. If that was the case, to deal with either kinda “privilege”, the entire nexus of “Han Patriarchy” would need to be confronted. In the context of this hypothetical society, confronting “male privilege”, while refusing to even acknowledge the nexus with, or likewise confront, “Han privilege”… would be a recipe for failure.

     

    Notice: once again, the hypothetical term “Han Patriarchy”: (a) does not imply that every -or- even most, peeps of Han ancestry are better off under this hierarchy, (b) does not imply that every -or- even most, males are better off under this hierarchy, (c) does not imply that all -or- any particular, peep of Han ancestry are to “blame” for this hierarchy, (d) does not imply that all -or- any particular, males are to “blame” for this hierarchy. It also doesn’t claim that (e) that members of the minority at the top of the hierarchy are all peeps of Han ancestry, or (f) deny that members of the minority at the top of the hierarchy are often going to be a near 50-50 split between males and females.

    So, to wrap up & back to the context of the US… both “white privilege” and “male privilege” are entrenched. Neither can be successfully confronted in isolation of the other (or in isolation of several other issues).

    So… back to the same kinda question I posed earlier…

     

    Do you understand why this entire nexus needs to be identified to be successfully confronted?

     

    -or-

     

    Is it simply a matter that you think that certain ways this nexus is being identified are sub-optimal messaging. If so, can you suggest a better messaging strategy?

    #58837
    sidders WANTED $21
    Outlaw

    Didn’t think this topic would stretch this long and there’s some interesting points…..

    Should we have a 2nd referendum ?

    Should we have a general election ?

    And would any of the above make any difference ? ?

    #58917
    Steller WANTED $34
    Outlaw

    Stevie25 wrote:

    Steller wrote:

    Stevie25 wrote:

    I don’t like Labour never have, never will.. I’m probably more green leaning than most on the forum, with progressive ideas that include Union support for workers (Not the Old Unions off past Ofcourse, the Uncorrupted is what I like)

    So getting a new start with new Unions run well for the benifit off all with 20% off board members to be current union workers, that have the workers support with transparency.

    But Labour is not at fault here at all, they have been trying and have successfully shown the Tory party for what they are, Currupt bastards never to be trusted….But also  the Torys have won over massive support from right leaning people, who have smeared JC & the Labour Party and also Labour themselves were infighting, it’s a political mess, never seen In our lifetimes.

    Labour also got took over in the nintys by Blairites, and they’ve also brought the Currupt into play, giving tax breaks, creating loopholes and downright criminality by allowing the banks & Financial sectors (Both Torys and Labour are guilty here off this & the tax laws) to play with our money.

    Its not the immigrants who deconstructed our Laws or unions or wages or overtime or NHS or no wage raises etc, its our bosses and the Government.

    Its always been Classism always will be classism its the rich V the Poors, North V South Scotland V England Labour V Torys is how they split us.

    I remember when it was the Irish in London or the Scots who were causing all the supposid troubles, same up here if only the Irish or Asians would stop the violence everywhere would be cool.

    The immigrants didn’t change our laws to be able to give us 0 hour contracts or decide that the police, firebrigade or NHS staff would have to have lower raises each year while we’ve had record heights in the Markets.

    If you see the correlation between the stock market and how our wages have stalled you’ll see who’s to blame for Brexit & our failing UK. Fuck them and there family’s, Bankers the lot off them, sorry Wankers. ???

    First off. No government iis, has been, or ever will be perfect and be able to please all of the people all of the time! Fact is, the vast majority of this country have never had it so good. A guest on Poliitics live the other week pointed it out in his book with clear stats that proved it. If you disagree, then give me an era where people had it better.

    Sorry, but you are 100% wrong about Labour not being the ones to blame for the withdrawal agreement not being passed last week. They approve it but voted against it. That is a fact and it was playing party politics at its very dirtiest and putting their wishes before the majority of the voters.

    Corbyn is not being unfairly smeared. Behind the scenes Momentum is running the Labour party and it is rammed full of hardline Commies. Every political expert will tell you that! John McDonnell is openly a Marxist. We have Corbyn at a wreath laying for terrorists. Need more?

    Also, immigrants are not being blamed for any of the things you mentioned! The issue has always been about numbers, with too many and in some areas far, far too many being let in. Controlled, sensible and fair legal immigration is what most want!

    BTW. Being Green. Most are to some degree and more so than ever before. Better standards of living is helping with energy saving white goods, lighting,  solar power etc.

    Yeah I’ll take your challenge… No Areas have had it so good.. How about the fact that every student leaving college has more debt than their parents and their parents before them..How about you go outside any major city in Scotland and ask them if they’ve ever had it so good, their answer is yes, because wages have declined in relation to inflation, services have depleted while the cost has gone up. Want more? Then stop watching shitty youtube videos.

    As for Labour fuck them and their people.. But the Torys are in Government and only the Government can be blamed for the failings of the Brexit & Society under their rule.. You see that, that’s It’s there fucking Rules Yes/No but you cunts wanna blame the Opposition ? You know what Fuck you.

    Because you wanna blame people who are not in power just like the tory scum, fuck you.

    And here’s me thinking you were a sensible, reasonable person. How sad that you proved me wrong by resorting to such an agressive, foul mouthed, personal attack.  Also, I dont get any info off youtube or any place on the internet!

    #59408
    Jamesr83 WANTED $18
    Outlaw

    The reason we are in this mess is simple, Davis Cameroon and co didn’t think for a second that leave might win, what should have happened from the off was a remain or leave referendum that in the event of leave winning would be followed.up with a 2nd vote on how exactly we would leave, instead not a second though was given to the procedure that would follow in the event of leave winning leading to this utter chaos and squabble fest we now have.

    Going forward any so called “peoples vote” has to be focused on how we leave only, having remain as an option makes us a laughing stock and a country that doesn’t really give a toss about democracy.

    #59413
    Jamesr83 WANTED $18
    Outlaw

    Jamesr83 wrote:

    The reason we are in this mess is simple, Davis Cameroon and co didn’t think for a second that leave might win, what should have happened from the off was a remain or leave referendum that in the event of leave winning would be followed.up with a 2nd vote on how exactly we would leave, instead not a second though was given to the procedure that would follow in the event of leave winning leading to this utter chaos and squabble fest we now have.

    Going forward any so called “peoples vote” has to be focused on how we leave only, having remain as an option makes us a laughing stock and a country that doesn’t really give a toss about democracy.

    FFS Davis Cameroon????, that’s the last time i write a reply on my phone, fu*k you auto correct.

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